I believe that we should have two categories: 1) Digital Painting and 2) Photography.
We can determine the specific details, but essentially, a "photograph" can be digital and enhanced in photoshop using standard darkroom techniques. However, when the content of the image has been added or removed(other than through cropping), it falls into a different art form.
Both forms are valid artistic styles, but to compare them against each other is not appropriate.
Patrick, I don't necessarily disagree with your comments, but I think it's very difficult to draw the line. For example: what if you remove a dust spot that was on the sensor? What it you take a landscape photo and when you look at it at 100% you see one small but distracting piece of trash and you clone it out? What about stitching together panoramic photos? What about adding a graduated ND filter post production verses in the field? HOw about HDR? Extremely over saturated photos?
My suggestion would be to allow all art that starts with a camera.
I think that anything done using darkroom techniques such as dodging, burning, contrast, white balance, (de)saturation, and dust removing would be valid photographic changes.
What I guess I was looking at is where the content of the image changes; like adding seagulls to a beach scene or moonbeams to a night landscape. Adding to, removing from or moving content inside an image I believe makes it different (not worse or better) from photography. It becomes more like a painting or collage. There are definitely some examples of this form of art that is exceptional and I want to imply it is a lesser form of expression.
I saw an example at a gallery of someone who used a flatbed scanner to create great abstact images of real items. But the art is in the digital manipulation. Understanding the way a piece is created is, i feel, just as important as the final image.
We should be able to incorporate into our club as some of the tools are the same. However, in competition, i would propose that they should be separate categories.
Although I think the idea of having 2 categories is appealing, when I look at the currentjuried show, a number of the entries would fall into the digital art area, including some that were winning entries. How would be handle this? I think at least initially, we should probably go with not trying to categorize the work.
I am inclined to agree with Heath. There are many things that I question being "photographs," but I think it would be an unending source of conflict if "we" attempt to impose "our" lines on what is and is not eligible to be entered into one of our shows. And this assumes that Patrick's line, Heath's line mletke's line and Harry's line are in the same place, which is unlikely.
Plus, even on images that are allowed in, there will be endless discussions on "I did x in photoshop, is that allowed?"
And what if an image is allowed in and an eagle eyed viewer spots evidence of manipulation after it is hung - is it thrown out?
As a practical matter, I like Heath's solution - if it starts in a camera it is allowed.
5 comments:
I believe that we should have two categories: 1) Digital Painting and 2) Photography.
We can determine the specific details, but essentially, a "photograph" can be digital and enhanced in photoshop using standard darkroom techniques. However, when the content of the image has been added or removed(other than through cropping), it falls into a different art form.
Both forms are valid artistic styles, but to compare them against each other is not appropriate.
Patrick, I don't necessarily disagree with your comments, but I think it's very difficult to draw the line. For example: what if you remove a dust spot that was on the sensor? What it you take a landscape photo and when you look at it at 100% you see one small but distracting piece of trash and you clone it out? What about stitching together panoramic photos? What about adding a graduated ND filter post production verses in the field? HOw about HDR? Extremely over saturated photos?
My suggestion would be to allow all art that starts with a camera.
Good point(s)!
I think that anything done using darkroom techniques such as dodging, burning, contrast, white balance, (de)saturation, and dust removing would be valid photographic changes.
What I guess I was looking at is where the content of the image changes; like adding seagulls to a beach scene or moonbeams to a night landscape. Adding to, removing from or moving content inside an image I believe makes it different (not worse or better) from photography. It becomes more like a painting or collage. There are definitely some examples of this form of art that is exceptional and I want to imply it is a lesser form of expression.
I saw an example at a gallery of someone who used a flatbed scanner to create great abstact images of real items. But the art is in the digital manipulation. Understanding the way a piece is created is, i feel, just as important as the final image.
We should be able to incorporate into our club as some of the tools are the same. However, in competition, i would propose that they should be separate categories.
Although I think the idea of having 2 categories is appealing, when I look at the currentjuried show, a number of the entries would fall into the digital art area, including some that were winning entries. How would be handle this?
I think at least initially, we should probably go with not trying to categorize the work.
I am inclined to agree with Heath. There are many things that I question being "photographs," but I think it would be an unending source of conflict if "we" attempt to impose "our" lines on what is and is not eligible to be entered into one of our shows. And this assumes that Patrick's line, Heath's line mletke's line and Harry's line are in the same place, which is unlikely.
Plus, even on images that are allowed in, there will be endless discussions on "I did x in photoshop, is that allowed?"
And what if an image is allowed in and an eagle eyed viewer spots evidence of manipulation after it is hung - is it thrown out?
As a practical matter, I like Heath's solution - if it starts in a camera it is allowed.
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